DNR Fish Regs Bogus?

[deadeternity]

I see various lakes around the state have special size limits and bag limits for certain bodies of water. I read some of these regulations and honestly feel that the DNR puts no real thought or effort in the decision making for some of these lakes. You take Browns Lake in Racine County for example, the minimum length limit on Northern Pike is 26" but, it is very rare you will ever see a pike 26" long out of that lake. Browns Lake is overloaded with thousands of stunted pike that measure average at 18" to 24" long. I always felt a slot limits or, smaller minimum length limits would benefit lakes that have large populations of stunted fish like pike but, the length limit stays where it is and all them tasty fish swim another day.

Then we have the bogus regulations on Lake Michigan for the Perch, which is at a limit of 5 a day. Green Bay is 10 I believe but, every other state gets to keep 15 or more perch a day. Rumor has it from what I hear that Michigan's limit is 50 a day but, I am not sure if that is true. But Milwaukee gets 5 a day which is ridiculous.

Another body of water I feel could benefit greatly from a slot limit is the Rock River between Jefferson to Indianford. You can go outthere and nail the hell out of undersized 14" walleyes all day but, there are times you cannot buy a bite from a 15"+ inch fish. The length limit is 15" minimum and, every fish you catch will be a hair undersized. In my experience the past 5 years I catch them either to small or, way to big to ever think of eating out of there. To me catching 14" walleyes is a fun pass time but, having a limit of eaters would be the icing on the cake. From what I read walleyes in the 18" to 26" range are the best spawners so, why not make a slot limit where the 18" to 26" walleyes have to be released and, the smaller ones can be eaters?

Just a lot of work I feel the DNR could do but, none of us as fisherman have a choice whether these regulations are changed or not. This is a subject that has crossed my mind many times and, I just don't see how the DNR thinks some bodies of water benefit from such screwed up lenth limits. People like eating fish and, people dont usually like catching small fish so, I think better regulations could work out nicely. I also do not see the logic in letting people keep great spawning sized fish over what would be ideal eating fish. What does everyone here think about the subject?

[pmjasper]

The bureaucracy that goes on within government organizations is ridiculous. I can't speak for WI specifically, but in NJ where I grew up it takes a number of years and documented data to get regulations changed. Point in fact...NJ had one particular body of a river that was designated as a wild trout area. When a limestone spring that fed this section was diverted from this section, the warters warmed and the natural reproduction stopped. Many anglers wanted to have a section of another river designated as a wild trout area, but in order to have that happen, the original designated area had to be removed from the list. In order to remove it, extensive studies had to be done and with the states budget it never happened. That's how it goes.

[deadeternity]

It sucks because nobody knows better then the anglers that fish specific waters regularly. For example, I know from experience the Lake Michigan perch would not be harmed at all if the limit was raised to 10 or 15 a day. I would like to just see it at 10 a day, they are big enough anyways. But when I can go out and slam 50 or more in a morning or afternoon without a problem, there is no reason for the limit to be just 5. Then you have your days where they make you work for them and, just scratching 5 can be hard.

But I would love to see more slot limits slapped down on certain lakes and rivers, like the how I mentioned a slot limit for the Rock River. Slot limits can really benefit a lake or river, and it allows the spawners to do what they do best which is lay the eggs for the future.

Then a really ridiculous set of regulations I seen was for Eagle Lake in Racine County. The lake had a 15 panfish limit already in the past and it should have been raised because, that lake had millions of stunted crappies and gills. Now there is a minimum length limit on panfish of 8 inches and, the limit is 10 a day. If you know this lakes history the regulations will make you sick.

[blitzfish]

It's 35 a day on Perch south of the 45 parallel in Michigan, otherwise your right it is 50 and that is a totally different story over there because their numbers are a little bit higher, but they probably should have it lowered over there. They are just playing it safe for the moment because some year classes are doing very well, while some have been lower. for all those other things, yes some decisions that have been made are stupid, but you just have to deal with it in most cases.

The truth behind not changing many of those regulations is that they just don't have the money and resources to change them, because they would have to check for themselves if each lake could handle that possible new regulation by doing things like fyke net surveys, etc. This would be a huge hassle and almost a waste of money in many cases, but in some cases no, which tend to be the lakes that get a lot of pressure and those tend to be the ones they focus on most. The other bad thing about it would be the regulation book. In order to fit all of those it would literally be the size of an encyclopedia. There are places that have regulation books like that, but they are not handed out to the general public like they are here in the pamphlets.

As for the slot limits, I love the idea of them, but most of the ones set up in the state that you can keep fish between 15-20 and one over 28, so it really wouldn't change much for that except you might get bigger fish more often. There are a few in the state that protect just 14-18 inchers thought. The good thing about it is as you kind of mentioned, it creates a bigger overall population from an increased number in spawners, which I love it for. The thing is that they only really do those things on lakes and rivers that can handle it or have a huge population, not to say that area of the Rock doesn't, I really don't fish it much down that way, but I would agree overall with you on this and I would like to actually see the slot limits introduced more and more all over the state just because it will definitely get fish numbers up in most systems that need it.

just my 2 cents, anyways TL and GL to all

Blitz

[Cat Man J.J.]

I couldn't agree more on the 5 fish limit for the lake Mich. perch.
Especially when the fishermen from Ill. can keep 50 and a lot of the ones they do throw back die because they fish them in 50 fow pre and during the spawn.
And since Wisc. has a 5 fish limit the fishermen keep only the 5 biggest perch they can get, which defeats the purpose of the 5 fish limit taking out the best spawners.
It would make more sense to me if they went to a 10 fish limit in which only one could be over 12 or 13 inches.

The Rock River has an entirely different problem. The DNR has their hands full with the Hmong fishermen who struggle with the language and written regs. to begin with, and I'm sure they feel that making any changes would just confuse these fishermen that have trouble understanding the regs the way they are.
So even though D.E. your suggestion makes perfect sense it's unlikely you will see any changes in the regs. there.
J.J.

[blitzfish]

they can only keep 15 a day in illinois, but besides that yes, i would completely agree with setting up something like that because it really is the best spawners we are taking out but they do have it set up so that no fish are taken out while they spawn. maybe a slot limit set up? nah that would just be to much of a hassle, but I would say that only 1 or 2 fish over 13 would be a good new rule.

[luv2fish]

Gotta agree and disagree...

I agree with you about Browns lake, the Rock, and the big pond. I don't however agree with you on your Eagle Lake thoughts. Take a look at Big Muskego / Bass Bay, they have a 15 fish 8" minimum limit on pannies out there and it seems to be working out. Granted you'll catch alot of fish JUST under 8" but what do you expect, its within 30 minutes from Milwaukee and if you know how to fish the lake getting your limit shouldn't be a problem anyway. I also like the "trophy" regs they put on the lake as well, 1 pike over 40" and 1 bass over 22" i think thats great! If you want a couple eater pike go to Wind, Muskegos, Delevan etc...

its gonna be a couple years yet till we see the full affects of the Eagle Lake rebuild but i gotta say, im kinda excited....

[deadeternity]

There is negatives and positives to trophy regs. But I have read that pike normally grow 40 inches most successfully if they have deep, cold, and clear water, and a baitfish supply of fatty baitfish like ciscoe and smelt. Pike in shallower lakes tend to stunt and die earlier supposately. I mean a lake such as Eagle Lake will have a few trophys, but them fish are very old by then.

Also, trophys will be rare to see, and what I see as a trophy is 38" or over. Then with the panfish if these fish overpopulate which they always do normally in shallow lakes, they are sure to stunt. Stunting is caused by lack of food and not having enough room to grow.

When they had the 15 fish limit the lake was okay for awhile but then, the panfish got out of control and began to stunt. There was once really great perch action for 8"-12" perch, but the bluegills and crappies were always small. And there were so many panfish you could pull them out as fast as the jig dropped to the bottom. When you have a 25 fish a day limit, you have fish that are no longer starved and crammed into a tight school. So they grow to larger sizes with better food source numbers, and they will populate just fine and pass on good genetics.

But I will fish Eagle again in another 3-5 years, that should be enough time for them to grow a bit. It was always a great largemouth and northern pike lake, with a decent number of catchable walleyes for a few years. I landed 6 walleyes 21" to 25" inches long on waxworms while fishing panfish. What a battle on 2Lb test line :). But most of my Pike were only 24" to 32", which is decent but not trophy sized. The bass were decent sized to, lots of 17" to 22" fish in there.

[collinfishes]

when them perch out there average 9-12in who needs more than 5 for a meal. thats 2 and a half sandwiches. do you guys really need to eat more than that? im a big hungry guy too but id rather turn my sights on cows and other things that arent a blastttt to catch. maybe its just me. im sure theres plenty out there, but when i see people lined up on piers taking their limits then coming back down in the evening to do it all over again or the ruckus down in ill. it makes me wonder how long will it last? didnt this fishery already crash from over fishing?? i could be wrong, i dont know but like i said i like to catch fish of any kind wayyyyyyYYYYyYYYYYyyy more than i like to eat em, thats just mee. :rolleyes:

[Cat Man J.J.]

Collin, I think the commercial fishermen are what decimated the Perch population the first time around.
I myself love a good fish fry and don't get to go fishing as much as I'd like, so I would like to see the limit a little higher.
If ya gotta put it on bread you ain't got enough fish, in my humble opinion.
Collin can you post the video of you and Joe dragging that cow out of the woods?
J.J.

[blitzfish]

ha ha ha, I gotta see this!!! lol :p

[deadeternity]

Collin, the 5 fish perch limit is 100% ridiculous on all levels. You can go to a inland lake catch 25 panfish, it should be no different for gigantic Lake Michigan. If you kept the spawning season closed and let them do their duty as fish there would be no problem at all with keeping more then 5. I dont eat fish on my own mostly, in fact when I fry up a batch of fish I feed 4+ people. My fish recipe takes a tad bit more preperation then the average fish recipe so, doing all that work to fry up just enough fish for myself seems like a waste of time.

But the fact is there is a very good population of perch in Lake Michigan, and more numbers of giants then there ever were in the so called "glory days" of perch fishing. Ask anyone that lived during them times, you were lucky to get a 10+ inch perch, the perch were way smaller back in the day. I enjoy fishing for the sport, the challenge, and the tasty perch, crappies, bluegills, walleyes, pike, and whitebass I catch. I fish the perch for 3 reasons, one of the reasons is they are a blast to catch, they are the tastiest fish I have ever had the chance to eat, and I like chasing trophy perch. I practice selective harvest, rarely will I walk away with a limit of 14 inchers if I could have kept 12 inchers, the quality of the meat goes down hill as they age.

As you can see, I am all for raising the limit on perch. It is very rare that I see everyone catching fish at the same time anyways. Usually while everyone is soaking livebait and crabtails I am slamming them left and right on artificials. There is a technique to catching consistant numbers of perch, they can be downright finicky like walleyes. There are days when 1 fish can be hard to come by let alone 5 fish. I have no worrys at all if the limit is raised. Commercial fishing is what impacted the perch negatively in the first place. Also, they only stay close enough to catch consistantly for maybe 3 or 4 months out of the year before they disappear into the depths. I would personally love to see it at 10 or 15 fish day.....

[muskymod]

Regs are regs....some are unjust....some just don't work....some are impossible to enforce....I believe certain protected slot regs are the most effective. Wi. panfish regs (25 daily bag) are not as effective as lets say a maximum size limit or a protected slot....many anglers feel they must take 25 of the largest gills they catch, this practice does nothing for the gene pool and has a dramatic effect on ideal progeny. States with no take limits on panfish promote gluttony and waste. Educating anglers on the effects of over-harvest is the best option. Some lake management theories believe that total catch and release policies are capable of producing fisheries full of giant fish....this couldn't be further from the truth, special site regs and controlled harvest is the best option.

[deadeternity]

Muskymod hit it right on the nail when he said special maximum size limits should be inforced. If I am nailing gills up to 10 inches long I am usually keeping the 7 and 8 inchers instead. The genetic pool is what keeps fish growing positively or negatively. I dont think any fish that can lay the best eggs should be kept, unless the fishery is a put and take situation and has zero chance of a healthy spawn.